Three Step Proposal to Solve the ‘Immigration Problem’
Immigration has recently become a huge problem. Mexican immigrants are coming into this country and taking the jobs of Americans and living off of our welfare state!!!! Why should we as Americans have to pay to keep those damn illegals alive? Those are the arguments I always here when people are promoting the crack down on illegal immigration. There are so many things wrong with those statements. In order to show whats wrong with these arguments I have derived my own three step plan for fixing the ‘immigration problem.’
Step 1: End All Socialist Programs, Such as Welfare
I do not want to involuntarily pay to take care of anyone. Whether they are immigrants or native citizens I do not care. Voluntary charities can give money to whoever they want. I can give my money to who ever I want. However, the government has no right to take my money and give to to who they deem needs it. That is Socialism. Are we not supposed to live in a Capitalistic Society?
Step 2: End the Minimum Wage
If you end the minimum wage it would not be as easy for illegal immigrants to undercut the American workers. With the minimum wage gone, the American workers would be able to work for a lower amount without worrying about breaking the law. The illegal immigrants do not care about breaking the minimum wage law because they are in the country illegally anyway.
Step 3: Open The Borders
Thats right, open the borders. With welfare and the minimum wage gone, only good people would come to this country. People hoping to immigrate to live off of the tax payers in this country would not come. The only reason we have an ‘immigration problem’ is because of these government programs and laws. Besides, one of the basic freedoms is the freedom to travel. This is supposed to be a free country so people should be allowed to come and go as they please. Do not forget, a wall along the border could just as easily be used to keep people in.
October 22nd, 2006 at 7:07 pm
the reason minimum wage was created was so AMERICANS could make a living wage. if minimum wage is taken away then we could be working for 10cents an hour again. why not take away the child labor laws while your at it? yay for industrialism and social darwinism! let’s revert back to the polluted corrupt industrial age where politicians ran downtown slums and children lost thier hands in the mines and died of black lung at age 12! that sounds like a fun place to be again!
October 22nd, 2006 at 8:42 pm
Well, when I first read this, I started to get upset. As much as you’d like to believe it, illegal Immigrants aren’t really taking jobs from Americans; most of them are doing the jobs that Americans won’t want to normally do, for dirt cheap. (but that is another problem with Americans)
As I read futher down, I agree with your three points, as its a very good path to head down. The only question I pose, is that if we rid the minimum wage, business’s will cut the salary of many legal employees, allowing more illegals to work for cheaper than we Americans are willing to work, right?
-JD jeremiah
October 23rd, 2006 at 1:45 am
on social programs what do you say then to someone who really needs those programs…like the physically challeneged or someone that has 2 or 3 kids and isn’t married, but works their hardest?
October 23rd, 2006 at 1:19 pm
Robyn - You put AMERICANS in all caps like that means we are more important than people in other countries. The United States was created for people to escape tyrannical governments. The framers of the constitution believed that all human beings had ‘god-given’ rights. Not just Americans. In fact, no where in the constitution is there a mention of citizenship until, I believe, the 14th amendment. Also, for more info about the minimum wage check out my earlier post.
JD - If a business cut your wage then you are free to work for someone else. If you are good employee then you should not have to worry about having your pay cut. Besides, most businesses pay above the minimum wage anyway. Look at McDonald’s for example. The current minimum wage is $5.15, but the workers at McDonald’s make over $6 to flip burgers and run the cash register. You do no see people going into McDonald’s and saying ‘look if you hire me, I will work for $5.15′.
Petor - I have a question for you. Lets say my mother is in the hospital because she needs a heart transplant, but she can’t afford. The doctors tell her she only has a few weeks to live. Is it alright for me to come to your house and rob you at gunpoint to get money to pay for her transplant? Of course its not. But, with socialist welfare programs, thats what the government does everyday. They rob other people at gunpoint to give money to who they say needs it. If there were really people who needed money that bad, charities would take care of it and they would do a hell of a lot better than the government. Since it would be a private charity they would actually care if their money gets wasted.
October 30th, 2006 at 6:14 pm
Rotting Nation-
I think you are failing to grasp the complexity of the issues being addressed.
In your response to Robyn you said “The United States was created for people to escape tyrannical governments. The framers of the constitution believed that all human beings had ‘god-given’ rights.” But for many years it was only the white upper class male who enjoyed these “god-given” rights. Thomas Jefferson, the writer of the Declaration of Independance himself, owned slaves. The United States was carved out of the land of the Native Americans by tyrannical means, but for some reason these facts get overlooked in a lot of history books. The very people (men) who laid the foundations of equality and liberty were the first to weather its mortar.
Also, I found your response to JD rather arrogant in that not all business owners would be honest and willing to pay reasonable wages. I know you said that one would have a choice whether to work at a place like that, but what if there were no other job openings? The establishments paying hirer wages would be filled by the more intelligent/competant employees, and the lower/marginal paying jobs would be filled by the less competant, regardless of how hard-working they are–it is possible that they would not be able to make a living–certainly a “god-given right”
Now, put yourself in someone else’s shoes. Let’s say you can only find a job where the pay is minimal. According to your theory (and hopefully), you would have to (and be able to) live off of the giving of others. Do you think you would have a sense of self-pride and accomplishment? Deprivation of these qualities leads to depression and depression leads to further deprive one of a sense of self-worth. Minimum wage and anti-discriminatory laws assure that everybody who puts out their best can make a living. (because all humans are capable of good things, right?)
I agree with you on your point of individual giving being seperate from the government, but how far will these individual organizations go before they feel like they are being taken advantage of? There is a difference between giving and sharing. Giving will temporarily fix the problem, but the situation will eventually come full circle. If organizations just handed out checks, who’s to say that money is not going towards alcohol, drugs, or some other habit or fix that would have caused the “afflicted” to be in their position in the first place?
To share knowledge of how to succeed or overcome obstacles and to provide support is the only cure for social distresses. Whining about them on sites such as this, for example, will not solve them. It seems to me as though you have over-simplified (as is political custom), as well as ignored scientific factors. Your use of profanity is a clear sign that the issues being addressed are heated topics for you–and they have become rather black-and-white. I therefore do not find your argument very convincing.
Best of luck with all of your endevours,
T. Shepard
October 30th, 2006 at 9:54 pm
I completely agree with your first point. Our founders were absolutely wrong to do what they did to the Native Americans. They were also completely wrong to enslave Africans. However, they did these things because they saw the Natives and Africans as lesser beings. This is a very sad thing and I am glad we have learned that it was the wrong way to be. Unfortunately, those things can never be taken back. We now understand, or at least should understand that all people should be free. If we have not learned our lessons yet, then that is a damn shame.
I think I addressed a lot of your points about the minimum wage in my other blog. Why is it right for people to point guns at me and tell me I have to pay a minimum wage for someone to sweep my parking lot everyday. It doesn’t seem right. Also, like I said before, jobs that more intelligent people do not want to do tend to pay over what the minimum wage is currently set at anyway. Fast food chains and retail stores are wonderful examples. These jobs pay more to attract people. Also, with out a minimum wage, it is likely that the price of goods would go down (especially if we got rid of the Federal Reserve). Earning a living wage is absolutely not a right as some people would lead you to believe. It is a privilege and something you have to achieve.
The current welfare system is people living off of others and I don’t see those people depressed. They also use the welfare to buy drugs and alcohol because they sell the food stamps at half price to other people. If you do not see this happening then you sir, are the one that is ignoring facts. Welfare is not voluntary and money should not be stolen from me to give to other people no matter what. It is not right to rob someone and give the money to someone else, regardless of how many people you have behind you.
If I were making below a ‘living wage’ I would look towards charities, family members, and (if I were religious) Churches for support. There would very likely be more charities in a world without (or with significantly less) taxes. Also, private charities would be much less likely to just ‘hand out checks’ than the government. If a private charity wasted as much money as the government welfare system many people would not donate to them. A real charity has overhead to cover unlike the government who has a seemingly endless supply of money coming in.
Furthermore, I am sorry for showing passion. It angers me when Americans show clear racism towards Mexicans and other immigrants. Don’t we ever learn? Whatever happened to the land of the free? Didn’t we used to welcome such people? Oh thats right, there was a difference, they were European.
November 3rd, 2006 at 2:46 pm
Although I think you have some good ideas, I have two major problems with what you said.
First, how would we go about abolishing minimum wage? And I’m not so sure that’s a good idea because people who work 40 hrs./wk. at minimum wage can not get by if they have a family. They’re called the working poor. So, creating a system in which Americans work for less than the minimum wage, which right now is not even enough to sustain them, seems like a bad idea.
Secondly, you made the comment that if social programs were cut then people would not come here to live off of American taxpayers. Ok, I volunteer with an ESL program in Alabama, and so I know a lot of illegal immigrants. They didn’t come here to mooch off anybody. They came here because there are no jobs where they are from. That’s pretty much the only reason. Nobody wants to leave their family, their friends, and everything they’re used to just for the heck of it. People need to eat, therefore they need money. Hispanic illegal immigrants who work what we consider menial jobs here in the U.S. make about 10x what they would make doing the same things in their home countries.
So, if Amerca wants to stop the influx of illegal immigrants, we have to give them a reason to stay where they were born! Yes, that means pouring money into their economies, at least for a little while. Developing and impovershed countries have to be helped or their citizens will be forced to leave to find a way to make a living. That’s why all the Irish came over here during the potato famine.
November 3rd, 2006 at 3:39 pm
For your first point, as I have said numerous times already, read my blog about the minimum wage and read my previous comments in this topic. Anyone can find a job that pays over minimum wage. Its called McDonalds. They start you out at over six dollars. Most retail stores also start at over minimum wage. If the minimum wage were completely abolished these jobs wouldn’t magically start paying lower.
As for your second point. I agree that most immigrants do not come here to live off of taxpayers. However, that is an argument I get from people all the time. So, I wanted to show how that would be taken care of in a free society.
I’m not sure I understand the part about ‘pouring money into their economy’. If you mean that it should be done on a voluntary basis, then I’m fine with that. However, if you think the government should do it then I couldn’t disagree more. Please leave another comment to clarify.
November 3rd, 2006 at 9:56 pm
Hi, its me again!
I appreciate your views and where you are coming from, but I am here, once again, to give an opinion differing from yours. I think Chelsea made excellent points, especially with the migrant worker issue. That is an “argument you get from people all the time” because it happens all the time and is mostly true. In most countries, there is just not enough opportunity. Also, isn’t it funny how people say or imply that an absolute evil is being done unto us when they want to incur change? It’s not funny, actually, but I find it very interesting how extreme these statements can be such as implying that the United States is not a “free society”. It depends on your viewpoint, I guess, because their are certain psychological phenomena that CAN control our behavior through society. However, relative to most countries of the world we have many freedoms, especially physical and verbal ones, that they do not. I will stop here, as it is off topic–if you want to discuss it further send me an e-mail.
I am going to stray once again from this thought for the moment, and come back to one of the earlier posts and the topic of the MINIMUM WAGE.
“… with out a minimum wage, it is likely that the price of goods would go down…”(Rotting Nation, Oct. 30 9:54 PM). This is very true, indeed, so once the price of goods goes down, effectively making their profits decrease, how will said businesses be able to afford paying their workers their current wage when the business is not making as much money as before? Granted, their operating cost will decline as well, but it is all relative, my friend. It will even out in the end, so why complicate things by trying to amend our laws? (we all know how expeditious THAT process is…). I think I have thought enough on this subject for the time being (more thought pending your response). Remember–it is all relative.
So let’s go to another reason why government funding through taxes should remain.
EDUCATION, K-12
I imagine you would argue once again that people should pay for their own schooling, but how expensive would tuition be? VERY. There are a lot of families who struggle to pay for their childrens’ lunches, and there is no way they could pay for schooling, past simple “school fees”. If you are thinking that community members would make donations, you would be mostly mistaken. The high school I attended passed one levy in six years, because there is a high population of people who do not have school-aged children. For that reason, we had minimal classes–which is fine, I guess. It allows for a more focused education–but for that reason (and because our sports programs were crappy) there was rather low morale and school spirit. The more involved a person is with something, the more seriously they will take it, getting more from the experience.
Here are the main points that I am trying to convey:
+With funding for schools cut, the cost of an individual’s education will skyrocket, making it impossible for some to recieve an education
+Quality of education would diminish, because a lot of the potential teachers would be discouraged by the minimal income (which would be even more so than it already is) and go into other fields
+If our country is not educated properly how are our citizens to thrive in the global market, not to mention in the United States? There would be an extreme amount of outsourcing, and our citizens would be free to remain in a state of economic despair. ~ This would also probably cause a decrease in the amount of charities in the United States–due to lack of funding/revenue–much like the situation in Mexico~
+How can we obtain Liberty if we are not taught to think for ourselves?
I understand that you are trying to think outside of the box, but maybe you should think about how many dimensions this box has…
Warm Regards,
T. Shepard
November 3rd, 2006 at 10:01 pm
Oh, and Peace…
November 5th, 2006 at 6:02 pm
I’m just going to quickly touch on your first paragraph. It is not really fair to say that we are free because we are the most free. I have two reasons for this. One, is that are not the most free country. You can find lists of the most free countries everywhere and America tops none of them. Also, even if we were the most free, thats like comparing cancers. Is China free because they are more free than North Korea? Of course not, thats silly.
As for the minimum wage, I do not see how profit would go down. The price of goods would go down because of the minimum wage being gone. This would not lower profits. However, I do agree with you that it is all relative. This is why I do not understand the recent push for a national increase. There is one thing about the relativity though. It only exists within our country. If the minimum wage were gone, I could see more companies staying in this country instead of outsourcing to other countries. Granted, it would take a lot more than just the minimum wage being abolished but it would be a good step.
Now we move on to education. Check out this link and search for the word cost. http://www.house.gov/jec/fiscal/tx-grwth/edreform/edreform.htm The government itself admits that private education is cheaper than public education. By more than $3000 per year. So that refutes your first point. If early education were to be privatized, it is likely that the cost of education would go down, because of competition.
This is purely speculation on both of our parts, but I would have to say that the quality of education would go up. There would be competition unlike the current government monopoly. Schools would advertise their graduation rates, college and job placements, and average SAT scores in order to get more money. It would also be unlikely that teachers would be paid less because private organizations are always managed better than government ran organizations.
Your next point is pure speculation. Who is to say that in a free-market society citizens wouldn’t be educated? Like I have already pointed out, education would be cheaper and more than likely better than it is now. To say that it would cause a decrease in the amount of charities also does not make sense. The wealthiest one percent of our country are the ones who donate the most to charities. Look at Bill Gates as an example. He was an entrepreneur who dropped out of college and did not need most of his high school education and he has his own charity.
In your last point you said ‘How can we obtain Liberty if we are not taught to think for ourselves?’. Do you actually think that government schools teach us to think for ourselves? I think the truth is quite to the contrary. Most of the ‘facts’ they teach us in history class are complete lies. Was the war of northern aggression fought over slavery? No. It was fought over states rights. If it were really about slavery, then why did it take Lincoln two years to sign the Emancipation Proclamation? Government high schools are nothing but socialist indoctrination. They teach us to trust and love mommy government. They teach us that we need all the socialism in this country in some cases. They teach us that war is peace, but they absolutely do not teach us to think for ourselves.
December 12th, 2006 at 12:02 pm
I agree about points one and two, but the third point - well, that’s exactly what they want. And not primarily because cheap labor would across the open border. No, I believe the point of this open borders exercise is to further denigrate the sovereignty of the US of A as a prelude to a North American Union, and thence to a socialist One World Government.
It’s our sovereignty that’s most at stake here.
December 13th, 2006 at 1:03 am
When you say thats exactly what ‘they’ want, what exactly do you mean? Who are they? If you mean the government, then why are they building a fence along the border. Also, there are many points in this countries past when we had a mostly open border. With the exception of being checked over night for disease.
Anytime there is a mass influx of immigration people get scared. When the Irish were coming over during the potato famine, people were scared of losing their culture and sovereignty. The story is the same now with the Mexican immigrants.
As far as the North American Union and one world government, I am against that, but taking away the freedoms of others is not the way to solve the problem. Using force against others never solves anything.